Dialogue with YU Kai of Horizon Robotics: Buffett and Munger are absolute idols, and the essence of entrepreneurship is also a form of investment.

This was an atypical "fireside chat" that took place at ten in the morning.

As a bottle of whiskey was opened, Harry and Dr. Yu Kai, the founder of Horizon Robotics, started from their entrepreneurial journey and had an in - depth conversation about Horizon Robotics' critical moments, mental cultivation, and business thinking over the past decade.

In this conversation, Yu Kai rarely revealed how he "forgot" those darkest moments, how he used "blind optimism" to combat mental exhaustion, and how he found the business rhythm between being a scientist and a CEO. He also responded to why he dared to list the company on the Hong Kong Stock Exchange when the market was sluggish and still received support from top - tier international funds, and how he views car manufacturers' self - research on chips, which are the concerns of many people.

Yu Kai said that the people he admires are Warren Buffett, Charlie Munger, and Duan Yongping because, in essence, whether it's entrepreneurship or making decisions in life, they are all forms of investment. Decisions are made by considering long - term returns. So for Horizon Robotics, it doesn't want to "shine brightly," but rather wants to be a "boring" company that can stay in the game for a long time.

Entrepreneurs are born to learn to forget

▌Wang Huai: Today, we are very honored to invite Yu Kai, the founder of Horizon Robotics, for this fireside chat. Of course, this is a very official way to introduce him. Usually, I just say: He's my good buddy, and we used to sit by the roadside and have skewers together.

As we all know, in this kind of fireside chat, it's easy to fall into clichés and ask questions with well - known answers. So today, I specifically picked a bottle of whiskey and sat here with Brother Kai at ten in the morning, chatting while drinking, hoping to share some sincere answers with everyone.

I've known Brother Kai for more than a decade. We've been communicating since before he started his business, and our institution was the first to invest in Horizon Robotics. First, I'd like to ask Brother Kai: How do you evaluate Horizon Robotics' development over the past decade? Are you happy?

▌Yu Kai: I think we should accept all possibilities. Of course, a lot of things happen during entrepreneurship. But anyway, since we're still in the game, I'm very satisfied and happy. This kind of happiness is not the kind with a beaming smile, but rather a feeling of luck or gratitude.

Because the underlying value of our company for a long time has been that it's more important to live long than to shine brightly. So for us, being able to stay in the game continuously is more important than anything else. In other words, compared with the result, I may enjoy the process more.

▌Wang Huai: In your memory, are there any life - and - death darkest moments?

▌Yu Kai: There have been many difficult moments, and I always thought, "How can I get through this?" But when asked about them, it actually takes me a long time to recall.

The reason I was able to get through those darkest moments, I think, is first of all, mental strength, which means you must be able to persevere. I shared a story the other day. A friend who has been in the investment field for a long time said that when he looked back at those successful entrepreneurs, they all had a characteristic, which is very much like a dish in the Jiangsu and Zhejiang regions. A live fish is deep - fried in oil until it's dazed and then put on the table, but you can still see that the fish's eyes are wide open. No matter how many reasons there are, in the end, it's those entrepreneurs with wide - open, determined eyes who keep going that can make it to the end. I deeply resonate with this.

I remember when I first met Jensen Huang around 2011. Comparing his state at various occasions recently, we can see that from a market value of billions to trillions of dollars, his energy and spirit have remained the same, with his eyes shining brightly. The same goes for Elon Musk. Their fighting spirit is always very high.

So I think when facing the darkest moments, mental strength, intellectual ability, and physical strength are definitely the basic skills of entrepreneurs. If you don't have the physical strength, you shouldn't even enter the game. It's the basis for getting on the table, not the ability to win. I think the ability to win first depends on mental strength, and then on intellectual ability. But for most current entrepreneurs, their physical and intellectual abilities are up to par. Whether their mental strength can support them through difficulties is extremely important.

▌Wang Huai: Then how did you develop your mental strength?

▌Yu Kai: I think it's blind optimism, even perverted optimism. Believe that no matter how difficult it is, you can still sleep at night, and no matter what, this day will pass. Then get up and fight again tomorrow morning.

▌Wang Huai: I remember there were several times when you called me. I could tell within the first five seconds that you had drunk quite a lot. But I also want to say that I'm really grateful to many entrepreneurs who call me late at night and say things they dare not say during the day. At those moments, I actually saw their vitality. Just as you said, no matter what, tonight will pass, and the sun will still rise the next day. As long as your mental strength can hold up, many things may not necessarily develop towards the worst.

▌Yu Kai: I believe entrepreneurs are born to learn to forget, which means you should only focus on the present and the future. So when asked to recall the darkest moments in the past, I can't remember. For me, it seems like they never existed. Forgetting is also a basic quality and ability for human survival.

Don't pursue coolness; run the company with investment decision - making thinking

▌Wang Huai: But even entrepreneurs with strong mental, physical, and intellectual abilities will make mistakes. How do you view mistakes and failures?

▌Yu Kai: I think we've made countless mistakes in history. For example, in the first five years, we can say that we were groping in the dark and couldn't find the entry point for our business. Every strategic discussion meeting was supposed to end in the afternoon, but it basically never ended until 12 o'clock at night. Because most scientists who start businesses initially have no sense of business and commerce.

But I'll take a basic attitude, which is to accept my own mistakes. I never regret anything because I always think that everything is the best arrangement. In my opinion, every mistake is an opportunity for me to find the narrow door to the future more quickly.

I recently watched a video and resonated with it a lot. It was Roger Federer's sharing at a graduation ceremony. He said that in his career, he won more than 80% of the matches. But if we look at the score, what's his winning percentage? In fact, it's only 54%. That is to say, he only has a nearly 50% chance of winning each ball, but he never thinks about how he lost the previous balls. For him, he always gives his all to the current ball and forgets the previous ones.

I have the same mindset. I'll forget the past gains and losses and seriously treat every current decision. We often conduct retrospectives internally, but the purpose of each retrospective is to play the current ball well. So this is a completely non - regretful mindset, a state of complete immersion and focus.

▌Wang Huai: That is, you learn new things from past failure lessons to help you play the next game better and enjoy this process very much.

▌Yu Kai: Yes. If you can't enjoy it, the retrospective process will become painful.

▌Wang Huai: Just now you mentioned Federer. Suddenly, I thought of a question. Do you have any idols you particularly admire? Why?

▌Yu Kai: Actually, we can get different nutrients from different people. But if you look at my many shares, one thing has been consistent for a long time, which is that Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger are my absolute idols. Among Chinese entrepreneurs, the one ranked first in my mind is Duan Yongping.

Why? Although on the surface, they are mainly engaged in investment, whether it's entrepreneurship or making many decisions in life, they are all forms of investment in essence. Decisions are made by considering long - term returns. So their thinking has given me a lot of nutrients.

For example, for Horizon Robotics, the strategic thinking methodology we've summarized after ten years of entrepreneurship. The first one is "compete where there is no competition," and the second one is "don't dance on the edge of the cliff." In fact, it essentially means not taking risks. This sounds strange because aren't VCs supposed to encourage us to take risks with their money? But we are almost extremely "risk - averse."

At the end of 2019, we cut the company's staff in half within a month. Everyone was guessing if Horizon Robotics was going to collapse. Actually, we still had more than 3 billion yuan in cash on our books at that time. It was just that we thought our situation was not good enough and needed to focus on our strategy; otherwise, there would be risks in the future.

Charlie Munger has a famous saying: If I know where I'm going to die, I'll never go there. Buffett said that the essence of investment is not to lose money. These may sound very boring and lack the passion to fight and take risks. First, I want to state that there's no right or wrong in choosing either way. But from our underlying values, Horizon Robotics doesn't pursue extreme coolness. It wants to be a "boring" company that can always stay in the game.

Adhere to market - and - product - driven approach and be a friend of time

▌Wang Huai: How do you view Horizon Robotics' development after its listing? Are you satisfied?

▌Yu Kai: On the one hand, I'm satisfied that we're still alive. On the other hand, we're also going all out to think about how to keep playing one game after another. So where do I spend the most energy? What I actually care about is "today" and "the day after tomorrow." I don't care much about "tomorrow." Because "tomorrow" is the result of "today," but "the day after tomorrow" represents a big vision and direction for the future, which is also important. But I think the most important thing is "today," which is what you can directly think about and act on.

▌Wang Huai: This view is very interesting. I've always been saying that in investment, we can only make short - term predictions for one or two years, and we can look forward to the long - term for five to ten years. But what will happen in the middle years is often beyond our ability. But I believe that if we do a good job today, the result of tomorrow won't be bad.

I remember that several amazing things happened when Horizon Robotics was listed. One of them was that many companies listed during that period actually relied on friends and family shares or local government support. But few were like you, getting support from very well - known large international investment institutions, including Baillie Gifford. So my question is: Why was Horizon Robotics able to achieve this?

▌Yu Kai: If we look at AI entrepreneurship in China over the past decade, Horizon Robotics is one of the few companies that has always adhered to a market - driven and product - oriented approach. In the short term, this may be a bit of a disadvantage in some aspects, but in the long term, you'll benefit more.

This was reflected in the IPO. When we were considering listing at the end of 2023, there were intense discussions. At that time, many people thought that the atmosphere in the Hong Kong stock market was too bad, with poor liquidity and low valuations. But we had some reverse thinking.

We think the Hong Kong stock market is still very fair, transparent, and rule - of - law - based, and it's connected to the international market. And based on the judgment of long - term trends, we believe that with the advantage of China's R & D talent, the globalization trend of Chinese innovative enterprises in the future is certain, and the Hong Kong stock market can attract global capital more effectively. So we pitched to investors among those long - term funds. Finally, in an environment where the outside world was still quite pessimistic about China, we actually proved that Chinese technology companies can still attract top - tier global capital.

Baillie Gifford was not only our biggest supporter during the listing but is still continuously buying our stocks. As we've seen, the Hong Kong stock market has been very prosperous in the past few months. So I think we need to have a judgment about the future.

▌Wang Huai: Things will turn around after reaching an extreme.

The world is not a maze; just play your best move in competition

▌Wang Huai: We've also invested in some executives who left Horizon Robotics. There's a very touching thing about them, which is "no matter what, they'll get the job done even if they have to struggle." Is this a style of doing things for people at Horizon Robotics?

▌Yu Kai: This is similar to what I said about "being the fish with wide - open, determined eyes." It's a matter of mental strength. But we'll never let ourselves be in such a dangerous situation. We have a thinking methodology - the gate of life and the gate of death.

Most entrepreneurs may think they should spend 80% or even all of their energy looking for opportunities. But we may spend 80% of our energy thinking about where the gate of death is, such as financial, compliance, and competitive risks. If we know where the cliff is, we'll stay as far away from it as possible. For example, in the intelligent driving chip track we're in today, there aren't many competitors in China.

▌Wang Huai: Are you worried that non - third - party car manufacturers will enter the chip - making field themselves? For example, NIO, XPeng, and Li Auto are investing a lot in developing their own chips. Other manufacturers may not use them, but their self - use will also affect part of your business.

▌Yu Kai: Of course, I'm worried. But we mainly think about the gate of death and consider "where we may die in the future" and keep a distance of 50 or 100 meters from that situation. Regarding car manufacturers' self - research on chips, I think we should accept all possibilities because we can't say, "You can't do it," right? Because everyone has the ambition to be the next Elon Musk.

So when I drink with these car - manufacturer friends, I always say, "You should do this business. What can I do to help you?" Because I think we can only do our own part well - make our products better and more competitive.

I know there will definitely be vertically integrated companies like Apple and Tesla in the future, but there will also be more room for companies that embrace an open ecosystem, like Lenovo, Dell, Xiaomi, OPPO, vivo, and Samsung. We just need to do our jobs well in that space.

▌Wang Huai: Are you still good friends with them now?

▌Yu Kai: Of course. I was drinking with Li Xiang the day before yesterday.

▌Wang Huai: I've found that very successful entrepreneurs have a characteristic. They don't view many people in terms of black - and - white, friend - or - foe relationships. Sometimes they help each other, and sometimes they have fierce competition, but they can still be friends while competing.

▌Yu Kai: I think we need a high - level thinking on this issue. From a low - dimensional perspective, you'll be like an ant in a maze, thinking that the road is blocked or that the world is against you. But if you look from a high - dimensional perspective, you'll find that the world is all connected.

From our perspective, I think we should always focus on playing our best move. Recently, Chen Mingyong, the CEO of OPPO, said something very well. He said that when playing Go, don't consider whether your opponent is a master. Just start from the chessboard and think about what your best move is. This doesn't depend on who the opponent is but on the facts. You should first do the right thing and then do it