Zhao Youxiu of the short drama label Tinghua Island: "Users' aversion to formulaic content" came faster than expected | 36Kr Exclusive Interview

Author | Li Xiaoxia

Editor | Qiao Qian

Since its inception, short dramas seem to have been inseparable from the concept of "speed".

The plot of short dramas should progress rapidly, and the shooting and production cycle should also be short. Industry myths such as "releasing a film 72 hours after the wrap-up" and "producing dozens of dramas a month" have engraved the concept of "speed" into the DNA of short dramas.

The growth rate of the industry is even faster.

Red Fruit Short Dramas under ByteDance has taken the lead with its free model. According to Questmobile data, its monthly active users reached 236 million in the third quarter of this year, a year-on-year increase of 93.9%, surpassing Bilibili and Youku, and ranking only after Tencent Video, iQiyi, and Mango TV.

While other companies are rushing to increase production volume, Tinghuadao spent a full 30 days on the drama "Inside and Outside the Family 2". This production cycle, far exceeding the industry norm, is like a stone thrown into a fast - flowing stream, showing that this short - drama brand is going against the current in the market.

In the era of rapid - paced short dramas, Tinghuadao's slowness is not only reflected in the shooting time. In September this year, they decided to focus more on original short - drama IPs, which means a longer production cycle and higher risks.

"The advantage is that we can create something different. It's difficult to produce high - quality works by repeating the same formula. It's better to explore a new path," Zhao Youxiu, the general producer of Tinghuadao, told 36Kr.

Tinghuadao is a company that entered the short - drama industry in 2023. It has been hailed as the "No.1 short - drama brand" in the industry for producing hit dramas such as "I Became a Stepmother in the 1980s", "The 18 - year - old Great - grandmother Arrives to Restore the Family Glory", and "Inside and Outside the Family".

On December 4th, "Inside and Outside the Family 2" was launched. Its popularity value on Red Fruit exceeded 100 million for 5 consecutive days, and the viewing volume exceeded 1 billion in 4 days. In an industry defined by "speed", how did Tinghuadao achieve success with its "slow" approach? Recently, we had a chat with Zhao Youxiu, the general producer of Tinghuadao.

Zhao Youxiu, the general producer of Tinghuadao

The following is a (edited) dialogue between 36Kr and Zhao Youxiu, the general producer of Tinghuadao:

Original IPs carry unknown risks, but the advantage is the ability to create differentiation

36Kr: Why did it take so long (30 days) to shoot "Inside and Outside the Family 2"?

Zhao Youxiu: We were under a lot of pressure when shooting "Inside and Outside the Family 2". We had to figure out how to meet the users' expectations. Additionally, the character relationships became more complex, with 16 new characters added. The time span of the drama is also large, from the 1980s to the 1990s, and the children in the drama grow up. So the overall story volume has increased.

We also wanted to see if users would accept a longer - lasting nostalgic story. If they do, it will be a new breakthrough and innovation in the future.

36Kr: The cost must be quite high, right?

Zhao Youxiu: It did take too long, and this case has no reference value. We don't hope others will follow our example. For us, as long as users like it, it's a good thing.

36Kr: Did you set any goals for "Inside and Outside the Family 2"?

Zhao Youxiu: We don't set overly high expectations because if we fail to meet them, everyone will be disappointed.

When we first started making short dramas, we were very nervous every time a drama was launched, just like checking college entrance exam scores. Later, as we made more dramas, we found that we should do our best in the early stage and lower our expectations later. Otherwise, being tied to the data will be very painful.

36Kr: The short - drama market emphasizes speed, but you are doing things slowly. Have you ever had a psychological struggle?

Zhao Youxiu: Slowness is an active choice for us. Some teams can complete a drama in half a month. The competition is fierce, and the content comes out very quickly, but we can't do that. Our content genes are different. Currently, we mainly focus on high - quality female - oriented dramas, and the overall production cycle is relatively long.

Many people misunderstand us, thinking that Tinghuadao can produce hit dramas frequently because we know how to "cater to" the audience. In fact, it's the opposite. We are always "catered to" by the audience. The audience's taste iterates too fast, and we can't keep up. Coupled with our slow production speed, our works need to be more innovative and forward - looking. We need to consider whether the work will become outdated in 6 months.

36Kr: How many dramas can you produce in a year now?

Zhao Youxiu: We produced more than 20 dramas in the first half of the year, and about seven or eight dramas per month in the second half. Our production volume is relatively small in the industry.

36Kr: Is there anything that is common in the industry but you will never do?

Zhao Youxiu: Most companies in the market are doing IP adaptations. In September, we decided to increase the production of short dramas based on original IPs, aiming to make the ratio of original IPs and adapted IPs reach 50 - 50.

36Kr: The market is so competitive. Won't it be a thankless task to focus on original IPs?

Zhao Youxiu: Innovation definitely comes with high risks. The shooting cycle is long, and the cost will also be significantly increased.

Unlike the IPs on Tomato Novel, whose popularity can be reflected by the number of readers, and for which a basic evaluation can be made, the risks of shooting original IPs are relatively lower.

Original IPs have not been tested by the market, and the risks are unknown. However, the advantage is that we can create differentiation, and the short - drama industry has reached a stage where differentiation is needed. It's difficult to produce high - quality works by repeating the same formula. It's better to explore a new path.

Moreover, our production speed is slow. If we buy IPs, by the time we start shooting, the drama may have already been launched by others. We can't compete with them, so we'd better focus on our original projects.

36Kr: Does the market hope you do this?

Zhao Youxiu: I think it's a good thing for the market. There are already many companies doing IP remakes. The market needs vitality and new things.

Free is our comfort zone

36Kr: When did you start offering free dramas?

Zhao Youxiu: In October last year, the ratio of paid to free dramas was about 1:1. Many companies gradually shifted their focus from paid to free dramas. The Spring Festival was a significant turning point. After the Spring Festival, the proportion of free dramas further increased, and now almost all of our dramas are free.

36Kr: Is the industry's shift from paid to free a good thing for you?

Zhao Youxiu: During the paid - drama period, it was very challenging to have good advertising and promotion capabilities. As a content - production company, we don't have such capabilities.

Paid short dramas have a certain format. We need to pay attention to the users' emotions from the beginning because it involves payment checkpoints. With free dramas, there are fewer creative restrictions. We only need to focus on whether the plot and the story are interesting and whether users will like the work. So we feel more comfortable in the free - drama field.

36Kr: Now platforms are starting to support male - oriented dramas. Does it have any impact on your female - oriented dramas?

Zhao Youxiu: As long as humans have a need for stories, female - oriented dramas will not disappear. Moreover, a real hit drama has no gender - orientation boundaries. An absolute phenomenon - level work must be popular among all audiences. The result is just more intense competition, competing for high - quality content and good stories.

36Kr: How was your revenue this year?

Zhao Youxiu: To be honest, it's better than the time when "I Became a Stepmother in the 1980s" was launched. The company is still in a growth stage. Our overall works are more mature, and the production volume is increasing, but it's not as exaggerated as the rumors outside.

36Kr: Haha, I remember there were rumors that "I Became a Stepmother in the 1980s" earned 100 million.

Zhao Youxiu: The rumors got more and more exaggerated, from initially earning 100 million a month to 100 million a day. In fact, after half a year of the drama's launch, the recharge amount was only about 70 - 80 million. Our production company only got about 7% - 8% of the revenue, which was only more than 5 million, and this was before deducting the cost.

36Kr: You said making money is not your top priority. Then what is?

Zhao Youxiu: The high - quality strategy we proposed last year, creating innovative and emotional aesthetics, remains unchanged. On this premise, we hope to create several sustainable IPs and make our works memorable to the audience.

Secondly, we hope that the team can improve its short - drama production capabilities in the process. To be honest, last year, the staff in each position still had their own strengths and weaknesses, and their aesthetics were not up to par. If Tinghuadao only considered the revenue, we wouldn't adopt the current strategy.

The "changes in users" are coming faster than expected

36Kr: The short - drama industry is changing rapidly. Have you noticed any obvious changes?

Zhao Youxiu: The users' taste and aesthetics have changed significantly. They are starting to dislike the traditional short - drama routines. The speed of the audience's change and iteration is faster than expected.

36Kr: When did you originally expect this kind of audience dislike to happen?

Zhao Youxiu: There was no specific time. We originally thought that some traditional themes would still be popular this year.

36Kr: What factors have accelerated this process?

Zhao Youxiu: The number of users of Red Fruit Short Dramas has increased significantly, and more people are entering the short - drama industry, including many film and television companies. All these factors have accelerated this process.

36Kr: From the perspective of making money, is this year perhaps the best year in the future for production companies?

Zhao Youxiu: We can't rule out the possibility that a new operation model will emerge next year. This year, people are trying interactive movie - games and AI - animated dramas. There are many new directions to explore. We should strive to do better next year than this year.

Short - drama actors are replaced faster than long - drama actors

36Kr: Do you now have an artist management business?

Zhao Youxiu: The artist management business is a new sector for us this year. We have signed more than 20 actors. We will rely on Tinghuadao's content to develop this business, that is, to expand the artists' influence through the popularity of the content and customized content. The core is to first ensure good performances, and then explore cooperation possibilities in variety shows, magazines, etc. according to the market trend.

36Kr: What proportion will the artist management business account for in the future?

Zhao Youxiu: For us, the primary purpose of the artist management business is not revenue but to let users see better works. For example, in the "Great - grandmother" series, it would be very troublesome to coordinate the schedules without our own artists.

36Kr: Now the daily salary of top short - drama actors can reach 100,000. With your own artists, the cost may not be high?

Zhao Youxiu: The advantage of having our own artists is that we know what they are good at and can customize more suitable scripts for them, so that the drama and the actors can complement each other. It's unreasonable to pay an actor 3,000 a day when they can get tens of thousands outside. It's also unfair to the actors. Our cooperation with the actors has always been very pleasant.

36Kr: Will short dramas, like long - dramas, fall into the abnormal state where all the money is earned by the actors?

Zhao Youxiu: Currently, the actors' salaries are still within a reasonable range of 40%. Moreover, the artist management business in the short - drama industry is different from the traditional one. Because the short - drama industry changes rapidly, the actor rankings may be refreshed every day, and there are many replaceable actors. Although it sounds a bit cruel, the competition is indeed fierce, so the actors' bargaining power and irreplaceability are not as strong as those in long - dramas.

However, with the change in the competition pattern this year, the so - called top - tier short - drama actors have emerged, which is a good thing. There are many hard - working actors who deserve to be seen.

It is not recommended to enter the suspense - genre market now

36Kr: People see that Tinghuadao has produced many hit dramas. What about the ones that didn't succeed?

Zhao Youxiu: Dramas like "The Blade of Justice" and "Dawn" did not meet our expectations. The revenue was not particularly high, and the audience didn't like them very much.

36Kr: What did these less - successful works bring to you?

Zhao Youxiu: "The Blade of Justice" showed us a different side of the actor Zeng Hui. We made progress in the environment and picture - style presentation. We know what we can achieve in fight scenes and have a deeper understanding of special effects. When making fantasy - genre projects in the future, we also know the direction.

Although the data of "Dawn" was not good, we tried the chapter - based structure, which attracted the attention of many industry insiders. Anyway, every drama is not made in vain. At least we achieved our own goals.

36Kr: For example, what should you avoid in the future?

Zhao Youxiu: To be honest, we don't recommend that the industry enter the suspense - genre market now. Because suspense dramas require a high - quality script and high - level rigor. Moreover, the majority of short - drama users and suspense - drama users do not overlap yet.

36Kr: It seems that short dramas are indeed restricted by some genres.

Zhao Youxiu: In fact, short dramas are quite diverse, and many genres can be explored. Suspense is just not easy to present at present, but there are still many other rich options.

36Kr: Will you introduce some talents from the long - drama industry?

Zhao Youxiu: Background is not our core consideration. We focus more on talent and enthusiasm. As an emerging industry, the short - drama industry has no traditional experience to refer