Dialogue with Wuzhao of DingTalk: Use AI to Break a Product with 700 Million Users

Interview | Yang Xuan, Deng Yongyi 

Written by | Deng Yongyi 

Until 2023, Wuzhao, the founder of DingTalk, hadn't thought about returning to DingTalk. But in 2024, his mind changed.

When he was running his own startup, he felt the power of AI and couldn't help thinking, "What if we use AI to reshape the way we work..."

When he left DingTalk and Alibaba back then, Wuzhao knew that DingTalk's scope was limited to China because it didn't have a generational advantage over overseas office collaboration products. However, the era of AI has brought new possibilities.

Thinking one step further, Wuzhao concluded that in the AI era, if you want to make a big impact, "capital and technological strength are essential."

This time, Wuzhao witnessed Alibaba's full - fledged entry into AI. Alibaba's AI landscape has taken shape, with Tongyi large - model as the foundation, Quark as the To C entry point, and DingTalk as the To B entry point. Its importance is self - evident. Wuzhao told 36Kr that Alibaba Group's view on AI aligns with the changes he wants to make in the AI era. "With the arrival of large - models, Alibaba is going back to its entrepreneurial roots."

With a sense of urgency in the AI era, in the four months since Wuzhao's return to Alibaba, "DingTalk employees visited and addressed 1,850 user requirements and optimized over 20 product lines."

Meanwhile, more than a dozen product innovation teams were secretly established within DingTalk, reporting directly to Wuzhao.

Four months after Wuzhao's return to Alibaba, the first report card was a "flood - like" release.

On the night before the DingTalk AI 1.0 version press conference, Wuzhao stayed up all night to compress the originally over 300 - page PPT to 200 pages. Some features were ultimately not released. Even so, the new version still included "DingTalk ONE" with an AI interaction mode, AI search and query, AI voice recording and note - taking, AI spreadsheet... and even an AI recording hardware device, "DingTalk A1".

Image source: DingTalk

Wuzhao has always been a "super - aggressive and super - hardworking" person. An old DingTalk employee once described him as "hot - tempered and even overbearing." When such an "entrepreneur" returned to a large company like Alibaba, in an era where "Gen Z is reshaping the workplace," his high - intensity work rhythm sparked some controversy. "We were already working our hardest on the product, but then we had to deal with being on the hot search every day," Wuzhao joked to 36Kr.

When demonstrating the new feature "Zen", Wuzhao self - mocked, "DingTalk is not just about work; it also offers a wonderful life." The whole room burst into laughter. Image source: DingTalk

In the enterprise service market, DingTalk has been in fierce competition with its rivals. But in the context of reshaping the way of work with AI, Wuzhao said this time, "I don't see them as rivals. This is only the AI DingTalk 1.0 version, and everyone is starting from scratch."

After returning to Alibaba, it's no longer just about "making DingTalk better" for Wuzhao. More importantly, it's about finding new solutions for the To B market in the AI era.

Wuzhao's view on AI remains radical. He believes that all previous To B office products in the market have "failed to see the future of AI." "In the AI era, the way of work should be about how we help AI understand the physical world." Ultimately, AI should surpass humans and take over the judgment and decision - making processes.

DingTalk's significance to Alibaba is no longer just a To B communication and collaboration tool.

"The AI - driven digital world, connected to the physical world with AI capabilities, will significantly boost the productivity of the entire world and have a revolutionary impact on the operating efficiency of the physical world," said Wu Yongming, CEO of Alibaba Group. DingTalk is the key to reshaping work scenarios with AI and influencing all industries.

In 2025, with the continuous evolution of large - model capabilities, AI is truly changing many specific work scenarios. Many AI startups are quickly finding their Product - Market Fit (PMF) and proving the market's potential through user payments.

When a product enthusiast is determined to reshape the way of work with AI, create a generational gap with other products, and even make DingTalk a "global brand," are you curious about his solutions?

With this question, curiosity about Wuzhao's return to Alibaba, and the recent controversies, 36Kr had a chat with Wuzhao. The following content is edited and organized by 36Kr:

The Story Behind the Return to DingTalk

36Kr: Let's start from the beginning and talk about your return story. When did you start discussing the integration of cloud and DingTalk?

Wuzhao: Around six months before I left in 2020.

36Kr: DingTalk started its entrepreneurial journey in 2014, and by then, it already had a very high market share.

Wuzhao: Because Alibaba Cloud was going public, it was definitely better for Alibaba Cloud's listing and Alibaba as a whole at that time. There's no right or wrong here; it's just a judgment. After all, DingTalk belongs to Alibaba, and I've always understood that. Eventually, a decision had to be made.

36Kr: Before you left, what were your goals for DingTalk?

Wuzhao: To create a global way of work and become a product with one billion active users.

36Kr: Were you angry when you decided to leave?

Wuzhao: Not really angry, but definitely disappointed.

36Kr: Did you ever feel depressed at that moment? Your career had undergone a huge change.

Wuzhao: I originally planned to leave right away, but later I went on a national research trip. In about ten months, I traveled over 50,000 kilometers. I was so sleepy from sitting in the car every day that I didn't have time to be depressed.

Sometimes, when people switch to a new scene and environment and quickly enter the learning state, they may let go of the past. Dwelling on it may make people feel bad.

36Kr: Didn't you think about taking a break?

Wuzhao: I did. Right after it ended, I even thought about taking at least two months off. But then I started the research trip. What's the point of just sitting around? I can't waste time. I always have to do something for the group.

The research trip was really helpful to me. During that time, I visited provinces and cities with a population of over 100 million, such as Sichuan, Shandong, Guangdong, and Hunan. I gained a lot. I've never seen such a vast and diverse market in China before. I think it's a once - in - a - lifetime opportunity.

36Kr: Why do you want to do something for the group? It seems so natural to you.

Wuzhao: I was nurtured by Alibaba. DingTalk wasn't created by me alone. Without Alibaba, there would be no DingTalk. The group made a lot of investments in DingTalk during its development.

36Kr: Did the idea of starting a business come from this research trip?

Wuzhao: After the research, I found that the Chinese market is like a flat expanse, especially in the Internet field. There are no barriers in terms of laws, regulations, culture, and language. So, when starting a business in China, in the end, it all comes down to capital, which isn't very suitable for startups.

In October of that year, I visited an overseas - oriented clothing factory in Guangdong and was really impressed. It had truly achieved industrial Internet. At that time, I decided to go global and founded HHO.

36Kr: Under any circumstances, would you never go to a competitor's company?

Wuzhao: Going elsewhere would always feel like a betrayal. I grew from 0 to 1 at Alibaba and still have a sense of belonging here.

36Kr: When you were running your startup, looking at DingTalk from an external perspective, did you still have much contact with DingTalk?

Wuzhao: I tried my best not to.

36Kr: Afraid of getting hurt?

Wuzhao: Not really. At that time, I didn't think I was in a position to make judgments. I was afraid of influencing the then - existing team. I might not be right either.

36Kr: That's a rather delicate feeling.

Wuzhao: The more you hope for its future success, the farther you should stay away from it.

36Kr: Looking back on the time after you left, do you have any regrets?

Wuzhao: Looking back, I feel that many previous decisions weren't forceful enough. If I had a chance to do it again, I should have gone global earlier, around 2017, and made greater investments.

36Kr: In 2023, there were rumors that you were going back. You said you wouldn't. Did you really decide not to go back?

Wuzhao: I hadn't thought about it. I was still running my startup. What would I go back for?

At that time, it was just a casual chat about the product and some discussions and speculations about the future. There was no talk of going back.

36Kr: When did your thinking start to change? Was it because of AI?

Wuzhao: Yes. When I felt the power of AI, I thought that if we use AI to reshape the way of work or create new opportunities, capital and technological strength are essential.

36Kr: Did the situation of the group at that time influence your decision to come back?

Wuzhao: It did. With the arrival of large - models, Alibaba is going back to its entrepreneurial roots. The group's view on AI aligns with the changes I want to make in the AI era. I was limited in my ability to invest in AI in a small company.

36Kr: Can't a small company create a huge product?

Wuzhao: It's impossible to bring about a revolutionary change in an industry. As a small company, we can also work on AI. But it's difficult to raise so much money and recruit so many people, and the financing environment was also very poor at that time.

36Kr: Your judgment is that only large companies with big opportunities can create a product that changes an industry. Is this a rational judgment? Is there an emotional aspect to it?

Wuzhao: I'm grateful to Alibaba. There's trust and a sense of closeness between us.

Reshaping a Product with 700 Million Users with AI

36Kr: What did you do on your first day back at DingTalk?

Wuzhao: I visited customers. I divided them into different regions and visited small, medium, and large enterprises.

36Kr: Shouldn't you have checked the internal situation first? Why focus on the outside?

Wuzhao: Customers' opinions are often more important than internal ones. This is a very important part of helping me analyze trends.

36Kr: How was the customer feedback?

Wuzhao: The customer evaluation was better than expected. I originally thought the competition was quite fierce, but after the research, I found it was okay. My colleagues had done a lot of good work in the past five years, especially in serving medium and large - sized customers.

36Kr: What were the weak points?

Wuzhao: The product lacked innovation. Also, I wanted to create a product that could change the world with everyone, but some people would ask, "Why do we have to work so hard?"

36Kr: Which specific functions lacked innovation?

Wuzhao: They weren't not working on AI functions. Many colleagues had developed a lot of AI - enabled efficiency tools, but they didn't define the future.

The AI DingTalk 1.0 (DingTalk ONE) we released this time is what we believe to be an important prototype of the future AI - powered work style.

36Kr: What do you think is the future of AI products?

Wuzhao: Many people think that AI is for human efficiency improvement.

But in the AI era, the way of work is about how we help AI, as the main body, understand the physical world.

36Kr: This is a very counter - intuitive judgment.

Wuzhao: I may not be right. But I think since there's an opportunity to create a super - intelligent entity, we should empower individuals and companies to become super - individuals and super - companies.

In the past, when harvesting rice, people drove combine harvesters to complete the work. In the AI era, we should let AI decide whether to use a combine harvester or humans for the job.

This is similar to the AI customer service we released. In the past, intelligent customer service relied on a large number of pre - stored Q&As. But now, without pre - storing Q&As, we let AI understand all the knowledge in DingTalk, and it can start answering questions on its own.

36Kr: What do you think an AI To B product should look like?

Wuzhao: At least it should help me handle work scenarios.

So, the first product we released today is DingTalk ONE. There's an AI secretary that processes all the messages, reviews them, and presents them to you in order of priority. I think this is how work should be done in the AI era. You just go through the work, and it gets done.

Image source: DingTalk

36Kr: Is it a bit like everyone else is making carriages, and now we're starting to make cars?

Wuzhao: It's a bit different. The difference between carriages and cars lies in the change of productivity efficiency, which is very clear.

Technological revolution determines the boundaries of productivity. If AI can connect to the physical world and think, it can actually do better than humans and break