Feng Dagang's Dialogue with Yan Li of Zhongding Capital: For entrepreneurs, having a dream in mind is more important than anything else | WAVES 2025

This is a new era for China's venture capital and investment. The current China's venture capital and investment market is not only a turning point at the bottom of the cycle but also a deepening period of structural transformation. In the new ecosystem dominated by policies and with high concentration of state - owned assets and capital, only by conforming to the trend and making flexible adjustments can we capture certain opportunities in the face of uncertainties.

From June 11th to 12th, at the Liangzhu Culture and Art Center in Hangzhou, the 36Kr WAVES New Wave 2025 Conference, themed "New Era", gathered top investors in the venture capital and investment field, founders of emerging enterprises, as well as scientists, creators, and scholars deeply involved in technology, innovation, and business. They jointly discussed cutting - edge issues such as AI technological innovation, the wave of globalization, and value re - evaluation, dissected their views on business ideals and the future world, and together explored, searched for, and moved towards the "New Era" of China's venture capital and investment.

On the morning of June 11th, a peak dialogue was held at the Founders' Venue. Feng Dagang, the CEO of 36Kr, had a conversation with Yan Li, the founding partner of Zhongding Capital, focusing on the theme of investment and entrepreneurship in the technology field.

Yan Li is on the right.

The following is the original text of the dialogue, edited by 36Kr:

Feng Dagang: We warmly welcome Yan Li from Zhongding Capital to the scene. Please introduce yourself first.

Yan Li: I'm Yan Li from Zhongding. Fifteen years ago, we founded Zhongding. Initially, we started from the logistics sector, then entered the supply chain and the "Internet +" track, and invested in a series of Chinese companies that combine technology and supply chain.

Feng Dagang: Many people think that the management of investors or investment institutions is not good. Although they invest in entrepreneurs, they may not be good entrepreneurs themselves. What's your view on this issue?

Yan Li: Fortunately, I've been in the investment industry for 20 years. I also worked in bank credit before and had extensive contact with China's private economy. There are corresponding entrepreneurs and founders in each era. Zhongding started locally and has now grown into an institution ranked among the top twenty in China. In China's venture capital and investment industry, there are many institutions with state - owned backgrounds and some with pure foreign - capital backgrounds, but there are actually relatively few institutions that are purely locally - born. Personally, I think the process of starting Zhongding was really tough. If I had known it would be this difficult, I might not have started this business (laughs). I found that a very important thing is to anticipate profitable opportunities, invest in the long - term, and invest in innovation, which enabled us to survive.

Feng Dagang: You were also an individual investor before. Entrepreneurship is not just about individual genius. There are many differences between individual investment and group investment, and between investing one's own money and investing others' money. What are your experiences of success or failure during the entrepreneurial process?

Yan Li: In my understanding, in today's technology investment, an entrepreneur must first be a businessman with a strong business sense. You need to understand the needs of customers and various interest relationships. So many entrepreneurs need to have a strong business sense and know who your customers are.

Feng Dagang: What kind of organization do you most want to become? And what must be avoided?

Yan Li: When Zhongding was first established, we mentioned "Gather at the sound of the bell and make a solemn promise by casting a tripod". The bell rings, and brothers gather together. "Make a solemn promise by casting a tripod" means doing interesting and meaningful things. It is the things that connect people. This is our philosophy and our view of happiness.

At the beginning, we defined ourselves as a boutique fund, aiming to be boutique investors, invest in boutique enterprises, and build a boutique ecosystem. Being consistently reliable is what a boutique is. We wanted to do such things. We preferred to work with the teams we liked on each investment. We didn't want to expand the company too much. But as the company developed, we found a problem. If so, new colleagues would have no opportunities for growth. Your organization is not just a few people but a group of colleagues. The core of the problem is that only with an appropriate scale can there be a certain scale effect, which can promote the growth of more people. So later, we hoped to transform the company into a platform - based organization, and our scale also became relatively large. However, it seems that in today's environment, a platform - based organization may not have as strong vitality as the original boutique - type organization. The more difficult the environment, the greater the difficulty for a platform - based organization. So in different eras, there should be different organizational models and corresponding appropriate scales.

Feng Dagang: If the scale is too small, the team won't grow. If the team scale is too large, it's difficult to manage, especially in the technology industry. In recent years, I've noticed a change in the technology industry. There is a new opportunity for generational overlap. Every time such an opportunity appears, it is an opportunity for young people and small companies. Today's giants may not be giants in the future. This requires higher sensitivity, discovery ability, and organizational flexibility from us. What should we do then?

Yan Li: Different businesses have different organizational models. Generally speaking, I think you need to find a good business model. I always believe that the industries with the fiercest competition are the ones that pay the most attention to management. For good companies, good businesses, and good growth, there will definitely be a period of slightly chaotic management during the growth process. Everyone has to sprint forward desperately first. On the contrary, for those businesses with less - than - ideal final forms and business models, management is full of challenges. Scale is not their friend but their enemy. I've seen some entrepreneurs and founders, and I told them that their business can't be expanded. Expanding it would be a pitfall for them. They should downsize rather than expand. But for some other enterprises, if they don't expand and grow rapidly, they simply can't survive. This is determined by different businesses.

Feng Dagang: I've noticed that some foreign funds deliberately control their scale. I even think that controlling the scale is a virtue, which means controlling one's greed and desires. Of course, this is related to their overall capabilities.

Yan Li: To be honest, it depends on your view of happiness. Personally, as a large organization, you should have your own view of happiness and ensure that each investment is well - made. Recently, I've been traveling a lot to meet entrepreneurs. When you look at the current environment and interact with traditional entrepreneurs, you won't feel very comfortable. But when you interact with emerging entrepreneurs, especially those in the AI era, you can see some glimmers of hope. Entrepreneurs born between 1985 - 1990 and 1995 represent a new era. Especially in the context of going global, there are a large number of opportunities emerging locally.

If you can communicate with these new - era entrepreneurs with your years of experience in evaluating entrepreneurs, you will really resonate with them. Young entrepreneurs respect you very much, and your experience can bring a lot of value. Their passion can also inspire you. This is a very happy thing. I think investing should be related to my view of happiness, rather than simply managing Zhongding and serving my own institution. I want to be a good investor and return to my original battlefield. I believe that good entrepreneurs and I, as an investor, can understand each other at a glance. We can analyze and discuss the situation together, deciding which battles to fight first and which later during the company's development. Some people just have such enthusiasm that can arouse my passion.

Entrepreneurship is all about this. It's about running towards the future with curiosity and exploring. You will be happy when you are with them. Especially after the emergence of AI, and particularly after DeepSeek came out, Zhongding also invested in some relevant chip - manufacturing infrastructure projects. As soon as DeepSeek emerged, we judged that there wouldn't be major problems in China's AI chip manufacturing. Although there are some difficulties, it won't become an obstacle to the development of domestic AI. We believe that after the infrastructure for domestic AI hardware and software is gradually established, China will enter the era of AI application and exploration. The opportunities in this era will bring hope to the entrepreneurs and investors here.

Feng Dagang: Today, I heard a new statement. I've asked many investors, and they said they wanted to be successful and patient investors. But it's the first time I've heard someone say they want to be a happy investor. This is a very interesting view.

Many funds say they will go all - in on AI. What's your view? What does Zhongding think? Should we strengthen the layout in this area?

Yan Li: AI is an extension of information technology. In recent years, different cities have become "hot" in different directions. In the past two years, Hangzhou has become popular mainly because of the combination of information technology and hardware, as well as the combination of information technology and various fields. Hangzhou is a city full of entrepreneurial spirit. Different places take turns to shine. So what we call AI investment now actually means that a new technology brings new business opportunities. But ultimately, you still need to see if the business is good and if the entrepreneur is a good one. Technology is just a means, and AI is just a means, but these means can create some imaginative new opportunities.

Generally speaking, I'm more optimistic about the combination of AI and hardware, and the application of AI in some software in the overseas market. Specifically, there are opportunities in the combination of AI and services, as well as the combination of AI and content.

Feng Dagang: Will you invest in large - model companies in the future?

Yan Li: I've evaluated large - model companies three times but didn't invest. I didn't dare to take action. The core reason is that I'm still thinking about whether this is an opportunity for large companies or entrepreneurs. If large companies must win in this field, how can entrepreneurs win? Previously, I thought it would be very difficult to succeed. But suddenly, DeepSeek emerged. Since it is an independent and open - source company and has an international influence, it means good opportunities for the development of domestic AI.

Feng Dagang: I've observed that many foreign funds deliberately control their scale. I even think that controlling the scale is a virtue, which means controlling one's greed and desires. Of course, this is related to their overall capabilities. There are three main forces among investors: US - dollar funds, state - owned funds, and domestic RMB funds. In the context of the current national emphasis on technological innovation, what role should domestic funds play?

Yan Li: We also have a US - dollar fund. In fact, we are a dual - currency fund. People say that we have entered the era of domestic funds because foreign investors are reducing their investment. But that's not entirely true. Why do state - owned funds enter the market? They have their own values. When they enter certain areas, we private institutions can step aside. So I often joke that if we were to be compared to an animal, Zhongding would be a duck, able to swim in the water but also occasionally come ashore. This is the result of the changing situation.

In my opinion, whether it is a domestic or foreign institution, they should find their different preferences. Some institutions prefer stability, while others prefer innovative, future - oriented, and revolutionary opportunities. Generally, I prefer the combination of industry and technology. I don't make as many "starry - sky" - type investments as some others. But I've done quite well in the "industry + technology" field.

Feng Dagang: You're saying that the nature of the fund is not that important. What matters is your preference and whether you can achieve good investment results. The last question. There are many young entrepreneurs today. In this era of extremely high uncertainty, those who dare to start a business are very brave. As a more experienced entrepreneur, what would you like to say to them?

Yan Li: I think there is a difference between starting a business and building a great company. You need to figure this out clearly. You need to decide whether you want to start a business or build a very large company. You have to judge if there is an opportunity to build a very large company. The most dangerous thing is to treat a small - scale business as a large - scale one. You need to think about whether it is a big deal, why it belongs to you, and similar things. Define your battlefield and then fight one battle after another. I think the core of entrepreneurship is that it's not difficult to do brave things. It's about finding a market demand and satisfying it. Generally, I think it's better than working for someone else (laughs). It's a free state, and there will definitely be various opportunities.

Feng Dagang: I'd like to borrow a statement from Mr. Yan. Mr. Yan wants to be a happy investor. We can be happy entrepreneurs. Everyone has their own definition of happiness. Earning a lot of money, making good products, or other things can all be the criteria for happiness. Today, Mr. Yan has inspired me. Maybe we can come up with a new standard, which is different from the past. And since you are all so young, why not do something that makes you happy?! Thank you again, Mr. Yan.

Yan Li: Having a dream in your heart is more important than anything.