With a 9-point rating on Douban, why can Toutiao Today produce "I'm Reading on the Island" | Interview

The north has welcomed the first snow of the season, while the south remains warm. Recently, Toutiao's cultural slow-variety show "I'm Reading on the Island 3" has come to an end. It has achieved new heights in both reputation and popularity. The show has received a total of 10 billion exposures across the entire network in 12 episodes, with 240 million views on Toutiao. The average viewership rating of the show has consistently ranked as the top cultural program in the same time slot on Thursdays.

Regarding how this program came into being, at the event site of the first offline theme day activity of "I'm Reading on the Island", the "Island Sound of Books Day", we had an in-depth conversation with Li Li, the head of Toutiao authors and content ecology. The event was held on the large lawn in Sanya, where 1,500 audiences met and interacted with the guests of the third season of the show, Yu Hua, Cheng Yongxin, Ye Zi, and others. It was a connection scene created by both writers and readers.

Li Li revealed that the viewership and external evaluations of the third season of "Island" have been on the rise as a whole. "You know that their experience and knowledge are above yours, but they are still willing to communicate with you equally and humorously like ordinary old friends." "I love these interesting 'old men' to death!" "The ceiling of domestic slow-variety shows." These are the evaluations of the audience for this program. In the past two years, "Island" has successfully broken through the circle with its unique slow pace, literary content, and interesting guests.

In the past two years, some film, television, and variety shows characterized by slowness and authenticity have gradually emerged, such as "Meet Yourself in a Place with Wind", "My Altay", and "Let's Farm", which is also a variety show like "Island", and all have achieved both critical and commercial success.

But looking back at the reasons behind it, why can slow programs have a place in the current era where "short, flat, and fast" content is popular? And why can Toutiao, which is mainly focused on male users and instant news, produce the "deep, long, and slow" "Island"?

In response to this, media including 36Kr conducted an interview with Li Li. The following is the interview record, which has been slightly abridged and adjusted due to space limitations.

Why "Island" Can Stand Out?

Q: What do you think is the reason why "Island" can stand out?

Li Li: This program is made with sincerity. I didn't want to implant some preaching things in it. You will find that the more touching things in this world may have some universality in the end. I just faithfully record some existing things, and these themselves are very touching.

Although this is a literary program, I didn't stiffly talk to you about literature. We combine literature with life, and life itself has a relatively strong coverage. Based on this, "Island" is indeed talking about literature, but it cannot be easily defined as a literary program. Is it a life program? No. Is it a reality show? A bit. I think we are creating a new type of program.

Q: Is there any contingency? Is it beyond your expectation?

Li Li: I think it is beyond our expectation. Many successful things have contingency, but when we review, we can always find inevitability. If I can continuously replicate this inevitability, success will be inevitable.

Among them, I think there are several important things. One is to invite the right guests. What is the key point of "inviting the right guests"? When we were going to make this program, we also received some program proposals from the outside. Even after "Island" came out, many production companies came to propose to us. Most people are more accustomed to demanding traffic, and many people's proposals are to invite topical figures.

The guest teachers of "Island" cannot be said to have no traffic. They definitely have some attention, but I think what is better is that they are really friends, really well-honed in the same field, have a deep understanding of their own field, have something to talk about, and are willing to talk. This is the first particularly important thing.

The second is that our shooting process is without a script, and many golden quotes are indeed the accumulation of the teachers themselves. I also heard a story that Teacher Ye Zi told us last time. We went to shoot in Greece this time. They went with Teacher Xi Chuan to a river estuary. The original plan was to go there to watch the sunset. While walking, Teacher Xi Chuan likes to wander around and got separated from everyone. Later, he missed the original itinerary to watch the sunset. But if you miss it, it doesn't matter. The process of everyone getting separated and then reuniting, including Teacher Ye Zi also told me, "When I was following Teacher Xi Chuan, I was thinking that when we are at the same river estuary, maybe we didn't watch the sunset in the same place in the end, but we looked at each other at both ends of the river." I think this thing itself is very touching.

No script, and not forcibly demanding traffic. Looking back at "Island" today, I think these two points are the most critical.

Q: And then there is the current demand of the audience.

Li Li: Yes, it may have hit everyone just right. "Island" provides more of a spiritual healing, making you feel that there is poetry and a distant place in life. "Island" does not give people a short-term emotional release. Instead, it depicts an ideal and possibility, and I think this is the touching part.

Q: Now many contents focus on the present and combine with the current topics or meet the emotional value of the present. Has our program made such a combination?

Li Li: This question is particularly good. First of all, I have to thank our guest teachers. I think the accumulation of the teachers is too deep. They are a group of people who are constantly thinking. Then, from the overall design of the program, there is no deliberate requirement for you to talk about something specific. It is not that kind of scripted program, so some hot issues will be discussed because they are people living in the present. Isn't literature itself derived from life and above life?

For everyone, whether it is the program or Toutiao, I just present some things that we can think of and see to give everyone a reference. In the end, what you can think of or what your views are on some current events, I think everyone has their own answers. It is good that everyone is willing to think about it through this program. "Island" is probably like this, opening some perspectives for everyone to listen to what others think.

Q: The new season of "Island" has gone abroad and increased investment. Is it because it has been successful?

Li Li: That's not the case. We went abroad this time because we have been talking in China before, and we were also talking about Chinese literature and other things. But the more we talked, the more we found that from literature to culture to civilization, it is actually international, and there will be many collisions and exchanges. Based on this consideration, we also hope to use this program to let everyone see diversity.

After going abroad, we not only let the teachers talk about overseas from their perspectives, but also invited Greek poets and local scholars to talk with us, hoping to provide users with more perspectives and a broader world.

Q: Everyone is willing to do literary programs. You just said that Toutiao does this program to improve the quality of the platform. Then what is the reason for everyone to persist?

Li Li: I think there are not many people who persist in the market. Maybe there is also "Thirteen Invitations", and there may be some similar ones. I haven't talked to the platform investors behind these programs about this, but I think that friends who can still persist in doing cultural content now may more or less maintain a motivation to persist in in-depth content.

Reputation is the Most Important

Q: Talk about the original intention of making the "Island" program?

Li Li: The original intention is not complicated. It still has to go back to Toutiao itself. Toutiao actually started with graphics and text, and has been doing some content in this direction. I think the users are also very interesting. I just learned the updated data recently. Users themselves also like deep reading. The average daily consumption time of our users can reach 80 minutes per person.

We should be far ahead of some competitors. Based on this, when we look at the content that users read, we will find that in addition to current affairs information and news, which are the things that Toutiao started with, there are also many literary and historical things, and there are also many discussions about these.

The content involved in our platform is naturally in the field of text, close to literature, and users also like this content. Many of the creators on our platform also belong to the literary field, and there are experts from all walks of life. Toutiao has such resources and advantages, and we should make full use of them.

In addition, since we are in this field, we do indeed bear relevant responsibilities, so we also think about whether we can use some methods that are more accessible to a wider user group to convey our own advantages and influences, cognition and discoveries. If in this process, we can also bring everyone some more meaningful gains, that would be even better.

Q: How do you define whether this program is successful internally? Are there any indicators?

Li Li: We are most concerned about the reputation of the program. As I just said, we observed our resource advantages and user preferences on Toutiao, and we hope to influence more people through these. Therefore, for us, the quality of the program is the most important thing. The Douban rating of the first two seasons of this program is above 9 points, which is not an easy achievement, and this is what we value the most.

Of course, we also have some other assessment indicators. For example, how the outside world evaluates this program, whether there are some "voluntary" users' and very concrete feedback. In addition, of course, there are also bottom-line standards, such as not losing money. But frankly, this is not the most important part.

Q: How to view the external evaluations?

Li Li: Toutiao itself is an Internet platform, and we can hear the voices of many users. This is one aspect. In addition, this program is itself for the general public. We will definitely also take a look on the major online platforms to see what the voices of everyone are like.

Including this offline event we are doing this time, I think it is more like an active approach to users. Before, we were passive. Users spoke first, and then we looked for and followed up. Including that everyone may also go to our official account to tell us.

This time we also thought that since the program has many loyal fans and their desire to express is very strong, whether we should meet offline first, and then have a more open chat. We not only want to listen to the feedback on "Island", but also the feedback on previous programs. Including whether they still have some expectations for us, we can also make adjustments to the program. That's basically what we think.

Q: Many variety shows on other platforms have very clear goals, which can attract paying members and have original content. But "Island" is actually quite high-end, and high-end represents a niche. How is such a high-end and niche program balanced with the mass positioning of Toutiao?

Li Li: This is the problem I just mentioned. We chose this direction and did not regard this program as a tool to bring us traffic. There is no such consideration. If we must give it a goal that is more in line with the company's context, I think we want to pursue a certain influence.

And then this influence may be limited to certain groups of people, and then spread through these groups of people. We are more concerned about how people who see this program view Toutiao, and we are also more concerned about how these people will describe Toutiao to others in the future.

If from this perspective, I think "Island" is a great success. So we still have some leeway and are willing to invest in these directions that are more focused on reputation and influence.

"Island" and Toutiao

Q: You said that Toutiao users like to read literature, history, and philosophy. In fact, there are also many contents of literature, history, and philosophy in the public account, especially those about history, which are particularly popular among middle-aged men. So when you study the reading habits of Toutiao users, is it after segmentation or consistent?

Li Li:

In fact, it still goes back to the question of "what users really like to watch". The majority of those who like to watch are still interested in hotspots. Our hotspots are those serious hotspots, not the entertainment and film and television ones. The mainstream of our platform is international, current affairs, people's livelihood, society, etc. Going one level deeper, what our users like to watch is not knowledge, but historical stories and character stories. In the character stories, it is not only about historical figures, but also about enterprises. Entrepreneurs are also particularly popular here.

Q: Has "Island" helped you expand the user portrait?

Li Li: It has expanded a lot. On the App side, as just mentioned, it is still mostly middle-aged men. But for this program, because variety shows themselves may have relatively more female users, and the tone and rhythm of this program are relatively soothing, comfortable, and healing. Therefore, as we can see now, among the users of the program, there are actually more women, and they may also be relatively younger, maybe these girls under 30.

Even many college students, it is not really for casual entertainment. I think everyone may be immersed in this program, and what they should get more is spiritual gain and pleasure. It is not the same as pure entertainment. It is not to relax your mind, but to allow you to gain some cognition.

It has indeed expanded our user group. There are some students in our team who watched "Island" and then applied for a job at Toutiao and joined the team. It is quite interesting.

Q: So you just said that the role of this program is "hoping that others will see Toutiao through this program". Then what kind of effect do you hope to achieve?

Li Li: Through this program, we just want to tell others: First, Toutiao not only has very timely hot news, but also has more rich and in-depth content on Toutiao. That is, in addition to hot news and information, literature is an expanding direction.

Secondly, in this program, not only literature is talked about, but also life. Many things are talked about, including travel itself, right? These are also some perspectives.

In addition, the program itself cannot be said to be young, but I think it will have some sense of relaxation. In this case, it is more of a healing feeling, not the kind of entertainment. These can also dilute some of the overly serious or old-fashioned atmosphere of Toutiao.

Under the shell of relaxation and healing, you will find that many things discussed in this program have some connotation and depth, which can help everyone open the perspective of understanding and thinking about the world. And this is also in line with Toutiao's slogan - "See a Bigger World". In the future, I hope that when everyone mentions Toutiao again, it really achieves the content of the slogan.

Q: So is the content orientation that our platform conveys to creators based on these?

Li Li: There is such an orientation. It will make them feel that Toutiao attaches more importance to such directions and fields, including understanding what Toutiao's requirements for quality are and what kind of authors we hope for.

Q: What are the advantages of Toutiao in the program's dissemination process?

Li Li: The dissemination of television is one-way. That is, you have ideas but can't find someone to communicate with. For the program, Toutiao is a discussion space that allows everyone to go to the platform to talk about "Island" again.

We also let users participate in the production process of the program. For example, the books in the "Island" library are collected from users. In each season of the program, users are asked to send books to the program team with their insights, and the guests will also select some books to share in the program.

Where do these users come from? When the program started, ideas were collected from users on the platform. This process is also a publicity, and then many of the collected ideas were used in the program, which is positive feedback for users.

Q: What will "Island" be like in the future?

Li Li: Based on the user's word-of-mouth and feedback, "Island" should continue. Since the program's three seasons, the changes and innovations are visible to the naked eye. First of all, in terms of the selection of the island, after going abroad this year, the collision of world civilizations has officially started, and the vision of the location selection is broader.

Secondly, the diversity of the program guests will be further enhanced. The joining of international faces will continue to expand the "Island Friendship