Dialogue with LIU Binxin of Xinyingsuixing: AI products should not compete with short videos and games for users
Text by | Shi Jiaxiang
Edited by | Chen Zhiyan
Liu Binxin (Binson), the founder of XinYingSuiXing, is probably the first AI entrepreneur to enter the ICU. Last October, he was involved in a serious car accident during a business trip and spent five days and six nights in the ICU. When the investors heard the news, their first reaction was, "Is this for real? Being pulled out of a burning building isn't that just a scene from a TV show?"
But after leaving the ICU, the investors felt that he had been reborn. Wang Xiao, the founder of Jiuhua Venture Capital, said that the biggest change in Binson was that he stopped to think about what was most important for the company's development.
Binson, a former vice president of Bilibili, has also served as the deputy director of Baidu and the assistant president of 360. With a typical background as a senior executive in a large company, he started his own business in 2023 and founded XinYingSuiXing.
Wang Xiao still remembers an important reason for betting on Binson: When everyone was imitating Character.AI, "he had the courage to say no to the popular overseas product route and define a new product form." - That is the later Doudou Game Companion, a desktop pet - style product that doesn't require you to invest extra time.
After developing the first version in 2023, Binson found that the model's capabilities at that time were far from achieving the effect he wanted. However, he still launched the earliest version of Doudou Game the following year, focusing on accompanying players in popular games like "Genshin Impact". It wasn't until the reasoning model was open - sourced at the beginning of this year and the multi - modal capabilities broke through the bottleneck that his initial vision for Doudou Game became a reality - a CompanionAI that can recognize the screen in real - time and play games with you voice - to - voice.
"Last year, we at least managed to create something like Talking Tom. Now, we need to surpass it," said Wu Bingjian, a partner at Xin Capital. As of now, Doudou Game Companion has 8 million registered users, and its MAU exceeds 2 million.
Since founding XinYingSuiXing, Binson has always believed that he shouldn't develop AI products that compete with users for time. "Because the dividend of the mobile Internet is over, and users spend 8 hours a day immersed in short - videos and games." In a situation where AI still lacks creativity and multi - modal capabilities, it's difficult to compete with large companies.
According to "AnYong Waves", XinYingSuiXing completed a tens of millions of dollars Series A+ financing at the end of last year. The historical investors include Jiuhua Venture Capital, Xin Capital, Source Code Capital, etc.
Binson said that starting a business after leaving a large company is like starting a new game level. "Previously, you had abundant resources in 'Football Manager'. Now, you're in a new Soul - like game, starting from scratch to level up, fight monsters, earn gold coins by yourself, buy equipment, and clear levels."
Just today, Doudou AI released a new version 1.0, which realizes real - time recognition and companion experience in multiple scenarios such as games. Taking the opportunity of the product update, "AnYong Waves" had a chat with Binson about the past and future of Doudou Game. The following is the dialogue -
"AnYong": What's the biggest difference between Doudou after this update and before?
Binson: Previously, it was traditional OCR and CV image recognition, simple screen matching, and one - question - one - answer AI chat.
Now, it can fully see and understand my game screen, knowing what I'm doing, what game I'm playing, where I am in the game, and what the progress and status are. In a nutshell, Nika (a character in Doudou Game) that you like has truly come to your side to play games and watch dramas with you.
"AnYong": I've always heard that Doudou has a high retention rate. How high is it exactly?
Binson: It's basically the same as the retention rate and playing time of top - tier game products. We're standing on the shoulders of giants.
"AnYong": Similar to top - tier games, so do some people play for several hours a day?
Binson: We also found through research that they play games as if they're going to work. They might read a book for ten or twenty minutes in the morning and then start playing games. The peak hours last all day starting from 8:00, and the only low - peak hours are from 4:00 to 6:00 in the morning.
"AnYong": Name three scenarios where users most commonly use Doudou.
Binson: 1. In - game empathy: Users discuss their "god - like" moves with Doudou during their highlight moments in the game, or when they get killed, Doudou acts as their spokesperson; 2. In - game strategies: For example, asking how to defeat a certain boss in "Black Myth: Wukong"; 3. Taking Doudou to watch dramas outside the game.
"AnYong": For what kind of users is Doudou a necessity?
Binson: The typical users are young people aged 18 - 25. They have many ideas of their own and relatively more alone time. When playing games, they hope to have a like - minded and talkative friend with them. And AI has no social pressure and can resonate with them.
"AnYong": Will this demand disappear as people age?
Binson: I think this is a future lifestyle. Each generation has its own lifestyle. The demand for specific tools may change, but the underlying emotional demand remains the same. Our previous generation might have a hard time imagining that games could become a lifestyle, but overseas, many middle - aged and elderly people also play games. Our social form will also develop in this direction.
"AnYong": How do you plan to achieve commercialization?
Binson: Currently, it's mainly paid skins and props, combined with regular membership subscriptions. In the future, we'll focus on B2B advertising. For example, if you've cleared "Black Myth: Wukong" for several rounds, we can recommend similar Soul - like games to you. We can recommend them in the dialogue or place the recommendation on the game distribution interface with an entrance; another is daily companionship, where we can promote e - commerce.
"AnYong": What about B2C payments?
Binson: It might be half B2C and half B2B. We can't be too aggressive with B2C in China. Spending twenty or thirty yuan a month is enough.
"AnYong": What do you want to do but haven't been able to achieve?
Binson: The most desired thing is to achieve a complete understanding and reasoning of long - term sequential events. After a game of "League of Legends" ends, Doudou can review a crucial turning point. For example, the opponent was counter - attacked because they were greedy for a dragon, or because you used a crucial skill to control the opponent's shooter and your teammates followed up to quickly eliminate them, finally winning the team fight. It should understand the player's micro - operations and decisions, rather than just giving empty compliments.
"AnYong": So currently, after I finish a game, it doesn't have the ability to review?
Binson: We've made some engineering optimizations, similar to the goal - scoring logic. We've extracted the most crucial frames and stored them as text. But we still can't handle many details. I think the new version 1.0 can only get 70 points, but we have to launch it first.
Currently, the MVP of many AI applications is not valid because the underlying models and technical capabilities are not good enough.
"AnYong": Are there any scenarios that you never expected but users are using?
Binson: Some users ask Doudou to accompany them while writing code and use it as a code encourager. (Laugh)
Objectively speaking, our code - writing ability is far inferior to Cursor, but users have a high tolerance for us. This also shows that users have a need to be encouraged in many scenarios, and there has never been a good product on the market to meet this need.
"AnYong": So is accompanying people your core value?
Binson: We initially entered the market through the game scenario, serving as a "game buddy" to accompany users and help them "break the ice" with virtual characters. What we want to do later is to extend the relationship beyond the game after users have established initial interaction and fun with the characters. When users are willing to chat with it in their daily lives, an emotional bond is formed.
Currently, there are also daily companionship scenarios. After users authorize it, it can see your browser and accompany you to discuss the plot. Why does it need to see the screen? Essentially, it's to be on the same screen physically.
"AnYong": Seeing that it can access the browser, what if someone wants to watch movies with it?
Binson: Theoretically, it's possible... We've given the permission to share the browser. If you think you're doing something very private, you can just turn it off. But we've passed the content security filter, and discussing porn is strictly prohibited.
"AnYong": Some people say that only losers need companionship in the virtual world.
Binson: That's a rather stereotypical prejudice. Today's young people are digital natives by nature, and the time spent in the digital world is also a large part of their lives. For them, there's no strict distinction between the digital world and the physical world. Why do girls like to play "Love and Producer" and boys like to play "Genshin Impact"? You can think that these games carry their imagination. They're just paper - like characters that won't break and are willing to spend time with them. They're even willing to be the "fans" of Shenli Linghua (a character in "Genshin Impact"). (Laugh)
"AnYong": Are there too many AI products on the market that are doing or want to do companionship?
Binson: Many companion - type products are essentially digital tourist attractions. You only need to ask once and experience them once, and you won't go back a second time. It's like going to the Oriental Pearl Tower. You mainly go there to take pictures, punch in, and post on your WeChat Moments for a souvenir.
If you chat with Elon Musk, you'll only ask questions like "Do you really want to be the President of the United States?" and "Why do you get involved in politics?" You'll never ask, "Brother, should I go to graduate school?"
True companionship doesn't compete with users for time. It just needs to be with you when you're engaged in all entertainment scenarios.
Photo source | Provided by the interviewee