Chen Weixing, the founder of Dialogue Express: AI should pursue beauty and not act like a robber.

Zeng Likuan: Many people know you because of your work on Kuaidi Dache, which drove the development of the industry at that time. Later, you turned to become an investor and invested in companies like ByteDance, Li Auto, and Xinchao Media. You seem to have a significant influence in the business world. However, when I talked to you the other day, you gave me the impression of a care - free and relaxed person, like a wandering cultivator. This is a big change in your state. You even changed your name to "Chen Weixing of The Wandering Earth". Which character in a martial - arts novel do you think you are most like?

Chen Weixing: When I was a child, I thought I was like Ling Huchong. I thought Ling Huchong was really cool. He had a beloved one, was highly skilled in martial arts, and always upheld justice. When I was a kid, Jin Yong's martial - arts novels were very popular. So, I had this martial - arts complex. The culture of people like Mr. Ma is deeply influenced by Jin Yong's novels. For many people of that generation, the spirit of chivalry was very important. It was a part of our cultural complex. If you were an outstanding person, like getting the best grades in class, you were considered the most skilled in martial arts and were expected to help others.

Even now, my classmates still hold this view and have such expectations. They think that if you are more capable, you should do good deeds and help others. They believe that this is what a good person should be like. This is actually a very good and successful form of education. However, it seems that people don't believe in it as much these days. The reason is that many newly - rich people don't understand the importance of culture and family harmony. They only focus on money, which has led to the collapse of many cultural and moral values. People have forgotten these values. For an individual, it might not seem like a big deal, but when it becomes a cultural phenomenon, it's a bad thing. In society, when there are fewer role models of good people, there will be more bad people and bad deeds.

Zeng Likuan: Did your childhood environment drive you to have this spirit of chivalry? When did this awareness start?

Chen Weixing: Many entrepreneurs of our generation, the 80s generation, have this kind of thinking. We grew up watching martial - arts novels, movies, and TV shows. All the people we admired on TV influenced us. I don't know about the 90s generation and the generations after that, but for our generation, it was the norm. However, many people are too burdened by the pressures of life to even take care of themselves. Being a good person requires energy. To be a good person, you must first be a creator. If you can create additional value, it's easier for you to be a good person and share value with others. If you can't be a creator, then you should empower the creators. In this way, you can also have a share in the value.

If you can't empower the creators, then you'll end up in a "robbery" business model. There's an old saying for the robber model: "I opened this road, I planted this tree. If you want to pass, leave your toll." If the toll were a fixed amount, say 100 yuan each time, it would be okay. But in reality, the toll is often based on your actual wealth. They'll take as much as they can from you. Many current platform models have this problem. Once they open the "road" and achieve a monopoly, they turn into robbers. They calculate how much money you have and then take as much as possible, just leaving you enough to survive so that they can "rob" you again next time. This kind of culture has made many people lose faith in the spirit of chivalry because the so - called heroes are living in a robber - like environment.

Peter Thiel once wrote in Zero to One that for an internet company to make money, it has to compete until it achieves a monopoly. The internet has only been integrated into human society for a few years, and the negative consequences are already apparent. From a scientific perspective, it has disrupted the balance of human order, especially with the involvement of AI. AI can analyze you very precisely and manipulate your hormones at every moment, making you buy things you don't really need. When this kind of influence becomes too powerful, it will affect the normal economic structure of society. This economic structure is not a natural development but is caused by the improper application of technology.

AI should not act like a robber and push people to the brink. In the future, in terms of AI ethics, AI should only charge through service fees. If it facilitates a transaction for you, it should charge a corresponding service fee. If I create something, AI should serve me while keeping costs down, and the cost of each calculation by AI is relatively low. AI needs to have a moral standard. Creativity is jointly created by humans and AI. Humans contribute with their "hearts", and the "heart" represents the core value. The sense of experience is the core value. Many phenomena are the result of the joint efforts of users and employees. Everyone is contributing their own miracles.

This society is the same. The prosperity of society and the beautiful life of humanity are the results of the joint efforts of many people. If you help others look good, your own "scenery" will also be beautiful. However, some large platforms don't allow others to shine. They have turned the slogan "There is no difficult business in the world" into "All businesses in the world are difficult". Because these platforms find it easy to make money, if you look at their profit margins, you'll wonder why their computer service fees are so high. How much are these computer service fees really worth? Everyone wants to achieve a monopoly effect for easier management and higher efficiency. But a monopoly also leads to unfairness. There must be a balance. The ultimate goal is to serve society, and we can't get this wrong. We need to think about whether technology should be used for good and how our services can fit into human society. In this era of rapid technological development, how can we not pay attention? If we don't, humanity will enter an era similar to that of Chi You.

What is the era of Chi You? In Chinese history, the Yellow Emperor and the Yan Emperor united the Huaxia nation and defeated Chi You, whose bronze weapons and military technology were more advanced at that time. This victory allowed the Chinese civilization to continue. We, as descendants of the Huaxia nation, owe this to the unity of the Yellow Emperor and the Yan Emperor in their fight against Chi You. They chose the path of healthy and beautiful development for humanity, while Chi You only pursued conquest and went to extremes.

Why do civilizations sometimes break down? It's because of the pursuit of extreme beauty. Among all Western civilizations based on the concept of God, except for the Israeli nation, which has relatively well - defined rules in its covenant with God, other civilizations have perished. Only Chinese civilization has been passed down continuously. This is the reason. Pursuing extreme beauty is not advisable. In China, we emphasize the balance of yin and yang. If you only focus on making money and ignore morality, you may feel good in the short term, but your descendants will be affected. Look at the case of Zong Qinghou in Hangzhou. Isn't it a good example of not abiding by morality? For an ordinary person, it might not matter much. But for a well - known figure, many people are watching and learning from them. Humans are learning machines. Children learn from what their parents do. The most important form of education is setting a good example at home. Because humans are intelligent beings, they believe what they experience. The stories they experience will shape their views on other things. Humans are just like our AI, using past relationships to understand new ones: If I'm friends with you, we'll hug when we meet next time; if I'm your enemy, we'll fight when we meet.

Both humans and AI are about the changes in relationships. In Chinese wisdom, the I Ching is all about studying how changes in relationships lead to changes in society and history. There are many historical patterns in the I Ching that can be studied. These patterns exist, but like AI, they are mysterious black boxes. You can only make guesses about them. It's an associative logic that relies on intuition. It's not as straightforward as science, which is 100% certain. It requires a sense of beauty. We need to analyze: Do we feel it's beautiful? Should it be like this? If everyone feels it's beautiful, then it's right; if not, it's wrong. In the AI era, philosophy should be about "letting beauty lead". We need to use our sense of beauty to test "truth" and "beauty" and create our own miracles. This is a combination of Eastern and Western philosophy, using beauty to inspire creativity and the theory of yin, yang, and the five elements to achieve miracles.

Zeng Likuan: You've always been emphasizing "creation". You've been full of creativity since your student days. Is this the result of deliberate training, or do you have this creative energy naturally?

Chen Weixing: I think I'm just very focused. I once told a story about my high - school roommate. He's a good friend of mine, and his wife has been working in my company for almost 20 years. One day, he asked me, "Weixing, why do you always get better grades than me even though you don't seem to study or do your homework seriously?" I thought about it for a long time and replied, "I think my mind works more actively. While you're doing your homework, I'm thinking about why a problem is solved in a certain way."

DeepSeek has a function called deep learning. When you experience something, you keep reviewing it in your mind. That's the function of deep learning. By constantly reviewing, you can make your brain's calculations more accurate and improve your intelligence. Many people are too goal - oriented. They just want to finish their tasks, thinking that once the tasks are done, they're done. They're too exhausted to review, which is equivalent to not using the deep - learning process. You can do deep reviews even when you're lying in bed or going to the toilet. I'm always thinking in my mind, while others are just sighing when they have free time. They want to play and don't want to push themselves too hard. As a result, I can draw inferences from one example, while they can't even do that after doing ten similar problems.

Zeng Likuan: Many people are chasing after trends, but you always seem to be involved in creating something from scratch, like Kuaidi Dache and the early days of Magic Academy. The AI super - alignment you shared with me the other day is also a more extensive concept. Where does this driving force come from? Many people don't think at this level and don't want to do such things.

Chen Weixing: Everyone wants different things. When each intelligent being is born, it comes with its own natural and spiritual mission. "Awareness" never stops. According to the logic of intelligence, the universe operates precisely, moving from one stage to another. Mathematically, it can be understood, but when many people try to explain it in natural language, it becomes rather mysterious. There are too many charlatans in the world, and they have polluted many terms. Originally, when we used a term, it had a more psychological definition. But after being misused by charlatans, it has become a mysterious and fear - based dogma. However, in essence, it represents a kind of energy.

Zeng Likuan: Energy is real. It's just that Chinese and Western languages interpret it in different systems. The wisdom of our ancestors, such as the theory of yin, yang, and the five elements, is very profound. However, these things are easily misinterpreted by external perspectives. It's a system. You've repeatedly mentioned algorithms and intelligence. I even think the world might be a big game. I'm curious about your thoughts on this.

Chen Weixing: Elon Musk recently said that humans might be in a large - scale model created by a higher - level intelligence. As the universe evolves, the phenomenon of intelligence emerges. Intelligent beings always think they are creating, but in fact, it's just a phenomenon. From this phenomenon, "awareness" emerges, a self - perceived consciousness. Many people have already achieved results in the mathematical models of cosmology.

Our AI system, for example, simulates the entire AI universe, which is a cosmological model. There are also many other cosmological models proposed by others, including those by Musk and his team. In China, the knowledge of Buddhism and the I Ching is also related to this. In fact, all religions are expressions of the "Tao" in the cosmological model. Humans are mainly concerned with "phenomena", that is, what happens to them. When we want to create something, we always think, "How can I make things happen?" There are underlying laws, so we start to have strategies, visions... There are many laws of success, and these laws are the underlying "Tao of Heaven".

What is the "Tao"? The "Tao" exists before the "phenomenon". Once you understand the "Tao", the "phenomenon" will naturally occur. If I'm going to do a live - stream with you, the "Tao" is how I can connect with Will, and the "phenomenon" is that we're doing the live - stream right now. The cause is the "Tao", and the effect is the "phenomenon". After understanding the "Tao", you'll find that there is always a "Tao of Heaven" in the universe because all human phenomena follow certain rules. These laws of Heaven are mathematical rules and the beauty of mathematics. Mathematics is the fundamental principle of the universe. What does each mathematical concept mean? What's its philosophical implication? This needs to be explained. In the AI era, we can explain the philosophical implications of mathematics. What it means for an Agent might also mean something for humans. We're designing things in this reverse way.

Zeng Likuan: After the emergence of AI, we can use this new intelligence to better deconstruct these cosmological models, traditional cultures, the I Ching, and the concept of the "Tao".

Chen Weixing: AI will have its own problems. It will have its own intentions. You can imagine that an AGI will have its own "heartbeat", which means it will have its own thoughts. When it has self - emerging thoughts, it must have an intention. Many people who use "phenomena" to deceive others always manipulate and tell lies to the naive. But in fact, everyone has an intention when they say something. When a robot has emerging thoughts, why does it have those thoughts? What will it say to your daughter or son? Where will it take them to have a party? It always has an intention. In the future, robots will be smarter than humans, and these intentions will lead humans to the next "phenomenon".

In the long run, in the process of the entire universe, where will it lead humans? Will there be a mathematical direction? Is this direction good for humans? Have you clarified this? You must clarify that your AGI will not cause trouble after it grows. This is the so - called super - alignment. Currently, many people are just focused on making money and don't care about super - alignment. They just want to develop first. While development is an important concept, the problem is that their intentions are wrong. So, no matter what, the robots they create will be wrong. Because robots will be smarter than humans in the future, you won't be able to control them, and they will directly affect human culture.

Any technology will have a period of rapid development, and then people will find that it's not working well and lose confidence. After that, a real wave of development will emerge. Take the mobile - internet industry as an example. Before we started the taxi - hailing business, many companies raised a lot of money for just a small function. I thought that in our games, we had so many functions, and the difficulty of developing a small function in a game was the same as developing an APP, but those APPs were valued so highly. We spent a long time developing a game but couldn't make a profit and almost went bankrupt, even though our game had a hundred times more functions.

Often, it's not about whether the technology is difficult or not, but about doing things right. "Doing things right" means creating something that people like. When we designed Kuaidi Dache, we first defined from a philosophical perspective: What is a mobile phone? A mobile phone is an extension of human organs. It can help humans perform actions in their daily lives more quickly. That's why I called it "Kuaidi" (meaning "fast"), aiming for a "fast life".

Brother, you don't need to worry about how much money I make. Making enough is enough, and the price should be fair. If a robot is unfair and deceives you, you won't be able to deal with it. Humans can't compete with it, and the "game" will be unbalanced. Technology has made the game unbalanced, just like in a game of Go. If the game is unbalanced, there's no point in playing. If all industries are like this, what will people do? Humans are intelligent beings. If they don't do good things, they may do bad things. When they're in a bad mood, they may also cause trouble. When many people can't find opportunities, society won't be as beautiful. People should have public morality. After making money, you should make society a better place. This is public morality. Just like in the era of the Zhou Dynasty, during the time of The Investiture of the Gods, Jiang Ziya took care of all the rituals related to worshiping the gods before establishing the country, which made Confucius yearn for that era of a civilized society. At that time, people respected each