After seeing a thousand To B products, the youngest vice president of DingTalk started a business and created a non-To B Agent

Text by | Deng Yongyi

Edited by | Su Jianxun

In 2023, Wang Ming had become the youngest vice president at DingTalk. He had contacted thousands of Chinese ToB SaaS software providers and enterprise customers. However, in his fifth year, he made a reverse decision - to start a business and develop a ToC AI-native application.

Wang Ming has had multiple career shifts. After graduation, he started a business in "flash sale" retail, which was later acquired. Then he went to 58 Group to be in charge of services like home delivery, always targeting the most ToC market. Then, during the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020, he joined DingTalk, responsible for the SaaS ecosystem, large models and AI ecosystem, industrial ecosystem, and AI innovation business.

Wang Ming said that during his nearly five years at DingTalk, after seeing so many ToB products and models, he had a strong feeling that trends are more important than choices, and choices are more important than efforts.

The reason is that Chinese users generally lack the habit of paying for tools. For large customers, the migration cost of ToB services is extremely high, and the decision-making cycle is long. In the AI era, this is not the most suitable path for entrepreneurs.

However, when choosing the specific niche direction, Wang Ming set a premise for himself: to refuse to only develop tool-based products and to go global overseas from the very beginning.

Just one month after the establishment of Peak Intelligence, Wang Ming led his team to complete the first-phase construction of the new product, Moras AI, and also secured tens of millions of yuan in financing from Cloud Time Capital.

Moras is an AI Agent focusing on the content e-commerce scenario of influencers. In the first phase, it targets creators and individual merchants (prosumers) on TikTok.

The usage threshold has been minimized: Users only need to spend dozens of minutes each day learning know-how from Moras, interacting with it, and reviewing content. Finally, they authorize Moras to search for products on TikTok, add them to the product showcase, publish videos, attach product links, write copy, select tags, choose channels, and finally choose the appropriate time to publish.

"We can't guarantee that every video will go viral, but we can guarantee the overall ROI," Wang Ming said.

During the internal testing, Moras has partially verified this certainty: as long as users keep using it for more than a month, they can achieve stable order placements. The current test data shows that the ROI of some accounts has even reached 1:50 - for every $1 invested in computing power, it can generate $50 in GMV.

In terms of product form, Moras intends to shape the product to be more like a real person. From the virtual avatar used by the product to the overall product interaction form, it seems like a little assistant providing services to bloggers.

A small detail that reflects their aggressive product strategy is that the first version of Moras was only available as an app, with no web version.

Wang Ming said that he hopes users will think they are really hiring an AI employee, and the usage threshold should be simple enough. "The web version still looks more like a tool and is difficult to use."

As for why he chose the TikTok market for the ToC product instead of others, it comes from his experience in building platforms, facilitating bilateral transactions, and serving productivity users.

Overseas, the user base of TikTok is similar to that of platforms like Instagram and YouTube. However, the supply of commercial content (such as product promotion videos) and bloggers' familiarity with the commercialization system are still in the early stages. The characteristics of users in developed countries mean that they don't prefer overly competitive business models.

"AI is not just a tool. The most important thing now is to directly deliver results." Wang Ming made a firm judgment to "Intelligent Emergence": "2025 will be the first year of AI efficiency tools, and 2026 will be the first year of 'pay-for-performance' business platforms."

The logic behind this is that the emergence of AI can reshape industries: either through changes on the supply side or through changes in matching efficiency.

Wang Ming took an AI business travel platform he once incubated as an example. Although it connected multiple suppliers through interfaces, making the corporate ticket booking process very smooth, it was essentially still a traffic business and did not change the supply cost or production relationship of air tickets and hotels.

But AI can do it. When incubating another AI legal service product, Wang Ming led his team to try a model where five AI Agents cooperate with real people. They provided legal counsel services that originally cost tens of thousands of yuan in the market at a price of only a few thousand yuan, and the response speed was faster.

In September 2024, after OpenAI's o1 brought the AI circle into the era of inference models, the evolution speed of model capabilities still exceeded everyone's expectations.

Developing Agents for content creation, product selection insights, and business data analysis is just the first step that Moras hopes to achieve. Wang Ming said that in the future, with the explosion of AI content, there will be a lack of trust. Personification will become an important anchor of trust in the business world. More and more business implementation actions will need tens of millions of "super individuals" with unique personas to drive them.

Moras hopes to become the Agent infrastructure platform for super individuals, helping this group with lifestyle content e-commerce and becoming the Shopify of the AI era.

For Wang Ming, what he needs to do now is clear: to quickly stand on the front line and feel the "tremors" of the models. "I didn't hesitate for a single second," he said.

The following is an interview between "Intelligent Emergence" and Wang Ming, the CEO of Peak Intelligence, edited and organized:

"The entrepreneurial opportunities for AI tools are over."

"Intelligent Emergence": Before starting your business, you had a quite rich experience. Could you elaborate?

Wang Ming: After graduation, I started my first business, creating something similar to today's flash sale platforms. After two years, I sold it. Then I started an internal business at 58 Group, creating 58 Home Service. Two or three years later, I incubated 58 Enterprise Service. After another three or four years, I joined DingTalk in 2020.

At DingTalk, besides working on the SaaS ecosystem, I was also in charge of the industrial ecosystem, enterprise-level services, large models, and the AI application ecosystem of DingTalk.

Previously, most of my work was related to ToC and enterprise service platforms. Only during my time at DingTalk did I focus on ToB software. However, most of the time, I was involved in business models and trading platforms.

"Intelligent Emergence": You spent nearly five years at DingTalk. What was the moment that inspired you to start a business?

Wang Ming: Actually, the moment that touched me was earlier. DeepSeek was a key turning point. But overseas, in the second half of 2024, when OpenAI's inference capabilities improved, entrepreneurship was booming.

In early 2025, I was still at DingTalk. At that time, we all had an understanding that in the future, there would definitely be many products in AI that could deliver results. AI Native companies might first grow overseas, achieving a hundred-fold increase. After being able to deliver results (instead of just being tool-based products), they could then enter the domestic market.

"Intelligent Emergence": Moras is positioned as an "Agent that helps creators directly earn money." How should we understand what Moras does?

Wang Ming: Our idea is very simple. There are many users in the TikTok ecosystem. If they want to do commercialization, they don't need to create content or select products. They just need to simply express their needs, then review - whether this content is okay, and then execute - if you tell me to publish, I'll help you publish.

During this process, what they need to do is authorize our account and then review 5 - 10 pieces of content every day and click to publish.

It takes less than 10 minutes a day. But after a month, they can definitely get orders, which we have already tested.

"Intelligent Emergence": What is the fan base of the users?

Wang Ming: In the initial stage, we focused on KOC influencers with a fan base ranging from a few thousand to tens of thousands.

"Intelligent Emergence": Before this interview, I searched for Moras. Its product form is quite radical, with only an app and no web version. Why?

Wang Ming: The web version still looks too much like a tool, and the threshold is still relatively high. We don't want to create a pure tool. Our judgment is that in 2026, for startups, the opportunities for AI tools are over.

"Intelligent Emergence": Why do you have such a judgment?

Wang Ming: Why did most AI products lose money in the past few years? Of course, some AI products were actively pursuing a higher growth rate. But many AI products were still just tools. Even a powerful tool like Cursor, which can improve efficiency by thousands of times, although it has a fast growth rate, it doesn't guarantee commercial returns for creators.

Previously, no one would pay for code completion tools. Back then, you were sold a hammer. In the AI era, you're sold Thor's hammer, which can write 100,000 lines of code in a second.

But this still can't guarantee that you can make a fortune with that hammer. It's uncertain.

As a startup, we need to find scenarios that are closer to money, more vertical, and can provide clear positive feedback on ROI. Even if you're working on a must - have scenario, if the penetration is still linear, it's not enough. We hope to achieve exponential penetration as soon as possible.

"Intelligent Emergence": What is your current business model?

Wang Ming: There are currently two models. The first is humans hiring AI - users pay the AI a basic salary plus a commission. I'll help you select products, create content, and monetize. I'll gradually teach you the logic of content e-commerce, gain more context from creators, and in the future, become the creator's alter ego and persona to serve fans well.

The second is AI hiring humans - the AI pays you a basic salary and can even negotiate the basic salary with you. Users help me review content and perform necessary actions.

"Intelligent Emergence": The second business model is very interesting. Why did you set it up like this?

Wang Ming: When co-creating with influencers, we found that there is a group of people who don't care about the future ownership and persona of the IP. They just want to do some work for the AI in the short term and earn money.

They said, "Can you pay me a basic salary first, and I'll be your reviewer and executor."

This made me realize a revolutionary possibility - when the cost of the AI doing certain things is much higher than that of humans, we can hire them to help us cultivate an account with a persona.

"Intelligent Emergence": Is the current maturity of the Agent enough to guarantee ROI?

Wang Ming: We can't guarantee that every product or piece of content will sell on every account. But on average, as long as users keep using it for more than a month, they can definitely get a lot of orders. During our internal testing, many KOCs have achieved results.

"Intelligent Emergence": If Moras covers enough aspects, will it overlap too much with the platform? Won't TikTok launch a similar tool itself?

Wang Ming: The platform can't be both the referee and the athlete.

You can't step in and replace the work of influencers. Influencers will feel that the platform is taking over their jobs. The platform definitely hopes that third-party companies like us will emerge and has provided a lot of support.

The Agent should focus on platforms and bilateral business.

"Intelligent Emergence": You've worked for ToC (58 Group) and ToB (DingTalk) platform companies before. How did these experiences influence your choice of track and ToB/ToC?

Wang Ming: At this stage, if Chinese entrepreneurs want to become part of the global first-tier in AI applications, the only option is to go global.

Let's analyze. As a Chinese team, if you choose to start with ToB or ToG services right away, you'll have to rely on a white sales team to compete in the SME market slowly. It will take one or two years to get orders from medium-sized enterprises.

But my judgment is that for current AI application startups, the battle will be over in a few years, and the giants of the next era will already show their dominance.

At this stage, if you're doing ToB business, you need to be like Palantir or Snowflake, getting orders from the world's largest companies in the United States. Each step up the ladder should bring in tens of millions or even hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue. Only then can you keep up with the first-tier in the AI application field in terms of capital.

This is not our strength, so we firmly chose to go overseas. We didn't choose pure ToC but instead targeted creators in professional productivity scenarios, leaning towards prosumers.

"Intelligent Emergence": Why did you choose TikTok instead of other ecosystems?

Wang Ming: As a startup, we should find scenarios that are closer to money, more vertical, and can provide clear positive feedback to users in terms of making money.

TikTok e-commerce is such a scenario - you can help influencers sell products, and using the right content form to sell products is measurable and provides relatively quick positive feedback.

"Intelligent Emergence": There are quite a few competitors developing AI applications in the TikTok ecosystem, each from a different angle. For example, Euka AI specializes in connecting North American influencers, Pippit AI focuses on video creation, and there are also teams like NemoVideo in China, which started with video creation.

When targeting prosumers, you're not only doing content creation, product selection, and business analysis but also directly driving conversions. Isn't this taking too big a step?

Wang Ming: At this stage, we haven't put too much effort into the content creation aspect.

To be honest, our initial idea was to create the Manus of the e-commerce field - Agentic AI + infinite canvas.

Although AI coding is very advanced today, a truly good creative tool must be an Agent, and the interaction form should be an infinite canvas. There are still many details to polish, and the workload is huge. It's extremely challenging for a startup.

Moreover, many content creation tools can only be used by very professional creators and haven't reached a wider audience. The threshold is still too high.

In 2024, when we went on a team-building trip to Yunnan, we saw a group of college students painting. We bet on whether they had used AI. When we asked, none of them had. They didn't know much about Midjourney, and they had only vaguely heard of Doubao.

Today's AI users are lazier than we thought, and the penetration rate of AI is still very low.

"Intelligent Emergence": What's the approximate level of finesse of the content you can generate now?

Wang Ming: We can handle content with a few shots within about 30 seconds. In the future, we'll gradually increase the number of shots, characters, etc.

"Intelligent Emergence": To use AI-generated content to drive conversions and make the closed-loop work, what do you think is the most important thing?

Wang Ming: In 2025, many people want to create an AI version of Douyin. What does it mean to create an AI Douyin? It means the creation threshold should be as low as that of Sora.

I thought about this a long time ago, even before Sora 2 came out.

Sora 2 got it right in terms of content creation - the content creation threshold is extremely low. But it's obvious that Sora 2 was developed by a team that doesn't understand business. An AI Douyin shouldn't just be a tool.

I think OpenAI did a great job with products like CodeX and Chatbot. But when it comes to building a business platform, at least one side of the platform's bilateral relationship needs to be ready. Why are there fewer and fewer people creating content on Sora, and the activity is decreasing? It's because the content created has no audience and no positive feedback. The cycle that Sora created is wrong.

"Intelligent Emergence": So, you're using delivered revenue to establish the cycle?

Wang Ming: